You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with no great worries at all. As far as installing it over pea gravel it shouldnt be a problem as long as u have the required depth of polymeric (again check bag/box) 2. I might get a bag and experiment with a small section, maybe at the start of the driveway. Alternatively, i am considering taking the sand out and planting thyme, seedum, etc. Then tamp. It is good to know that pros have to take it stone-by-stone and be patient. Another method is to simply pour boiling water on the unwanted plants. Great, youre welcome and I hope my advice is helpful. Okay, I just dont know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you? Im hoping you might recommend something. Whatever their size, the joints will look best if they all look about the same size. Or sand, if need be. pea gravel really has no place in the landscape. Very glad I could help One stone at a time, no plastic needed. Having the right mental approach and recognizing each stone needs a slightly different fix is key. Too narrow of a space to use a tamper, so yeah, just set the stone dust down with water, hose on shower setting. Woo-hoo, no need to remove a concrete foundation! Or how to deal with it? After completing the digging of holes for the plants that I added, I topped the beds off with mulch and bark chips. So, if that patio is dry laid, then I would remove the material from the joints at the same time I was pressure washing the stones surface. Specifically, decomposed granite aka decomposed granite screenings is crushed stone, made from granite. Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. Had a similar problem when we bought our current property. Thanks for your help, George. Clean gravel means it contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch in size. Were expanding the deck so were going to rescue the patio and relocate it. Anyway, Id re-fit the stones. I believe there are different kinds of sand and one of them might work. The decomposed granite in the second link also looks right, but it will probably cost more. Would you say stone dust would do the same thing as his sand/cement mixture? A wire-brush plus a lot of elbow grease will often remove much of the hazewill rarely get it all though. 2. Anyway, theres many diy articles on this website, which many people have found helpful over the years. Shady area you say? thanks. Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? I just installed a natural stone patio and was researching poly sand for filling the cracks when I came across your article. How to screen this back porch? Quickrete mason mix type s. Green bag. Sigh! What did I do wrong? Scroll down to the heading that says How to install stone dust in between your flagstones. Best answer: just use gravel. Soil only becomes dirt if it gets somewhere it does not belong. The best way to predict your future is to create it. This is basically putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, on top of the joints. I do know it's pretty spendy. You can also use cement. Do you think installing a border on the sides of the trench is necessary? Hi I have dog kennel for my dog and I was wondering .Should I use pea gravel or cement I wont something easy to clean. I realize it would be better to remove everything but Im not up to doing that. Send photos and info to devin@devineescapes.com. Do you love it? And thank you for bringing me 1/2 to 3/4 stone joints. Maybe 6 yardS of 1/4 minus (decomposed granite is more expensive, just ask for 1/4 minus, or pathway fines). Have you seen this used with travertine tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida? But, you came to me with a need and Id rather give you a complete answer. I have good sandy loam soil. Not a big fan of waterproofing goop being sprayed into stone screenings either. Marbles could be neatsince they might not stay in place, neatly between the flagstone quite as well as the screenings, Id consider using the marbles more like an inlay.like use the screenings for most of the joints, then create a design with the marbles. If it deteriorates, it can always be supplemented with the traditional fine sand to insure the strength and stability of the pavement. I live just north of Philly (19046). This system is somewhat self-healing. But yes, for a DG path, a border or edge material is generally necessary. Natural flagstone, concrete paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, their joints then need to be filled. I was looking for an explanation of red dust. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. Any idea where we could look for some advice? But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. These stones on the pool edge got mortared in joints, dyed dark gray to match the stone dust/DG that was used for the rest of the flagstone. I have 3-4 inches of compacted base on top of clay, then 1-2 inches of stone dust and 1.5-2 inch thick limestone. Devin, Thanks for all your thoughtful advise. Okay, so Ive never seen decomposed granite sold anywhere in south eastern PAand I lived in Montgomery County for years. adding polymeric sand to pea gravel can help keep the gravel in place. Still, this stuff is what you are asking me for. I would then proceed to use screening in between joints. You fill a wheel barrow full of gravel, add some glue, mix it up with a shovel, dump it into place and rake it out level. Any saw cuts i then rough up, using the same hammer technique as in the video, in order to keep it natural loooking. And finally, since this is a site specific question, Ill remind you that I do offer personal DIY flagstone help. Take a sprinkler and wet it down , it will tighten it up , still be looser stones on top. and do you ask for just that (Stone dust or screenings)? Polymeric sand will crack, over time. The end result is a firm walking surface which is also permeable, allowing water to pass through. I have heard many hardscapers claim that its impossible to remove the polymeric sand haze. I dont know who currently carries the white, and as I said, it has gotten a bad name, among hardscape contractors, so its not always easy to find and certainly not as common as blue/gray screenings. But I couldn't find it in Utah, and I also read that it sticks to your shoes and becomes a sanding agent if you have wood floors, which I do. Stone dust getting kicked out of the joints may be a bit of a concernbut I would fill with stone dust, hose down, and then top it off. What do you suggest for front stair edges to prevent the stone from being tippy? A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. And if you think this would work, what proportions ? Polymers for Sand, Gravel, Aggregate and Concrete Processing - thickeners, sand processing, dredging, dewatering, clarification , dry processes. And reallymaybe make the drainage saw-cut, then fill in a couple inches with road base type gravel. The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. 1 ton of screenings will do about 200 sq at 1 inch. Gravel is much less vulnerable to damage from seasonal . Best,Aaron. Beyond that, if you want to email me photos and receive personal guidance, Id be happy to help you. I addressed the issue of weeds and dry laid flagstone here As it states in the article, personally, weeds between flagstones dont bother me all that muchand if the weeds really are that bad, then a bit of boiling water will dispatch with them nicely. Sweeping dg into the joints again, because some voids will have appeared after the first hose down, then hosing down again. The previous comment about the smaller stones becoming loose made me wonder if using the red steppers will work. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. Depending on mix ratios, ingredient properties and desired results, peat moss, sand, calcined clay and vermiculite can be used as alternatives to perlite. If there are a lot of weeds present, you may want to add a barrier of landscape fabric between the base rock and the pea gravel. We just put in a flagstone patio using decomposed granite in between the stones. 1. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. Further, the stone dust I have seen is just the flour part of the DG that you describe using, without any of the 1/8 particles. Pleas re-read the above article, for my thoughts on that! At 1200 square feet youre going to need a triaxle load of gravel.give or take, depending on the required depth. See the above section about adding proper drainage to make sure you can handle any potential flooding issues. Ants? Gods peace. It works well. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. Screenings are crushed stone. You basically pour the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep gravel in place. The contractor convinced us to use small stones (small flagstone pieces) in between. See that off-white material between the flagstones? It is apparently about 12 yrs old. You could a) hire a professional. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-stone-bond/, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-rock-bond-liquid-binding-agent/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Wait till the joint is somewhat damp, but not soaking and the fill with mortar. It looks like the guy was pretty lazy/rushed when he laid it as there are numerous 3 or more spaces everywhere. I have written an article that discusses whether to use sand, cement or gravel for in between you flagstone joints. First of all know that at this point, any means to clean off the stones will likely destroy the joints that youve installed. Id love to get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG. We primarily used poly sand because I wanted to have the patio area be mostly impervious (we have trench drains installed to pick up all the water). We bought pea gravel at a local landscape supply company in some 5 gallon buckets for a couple of dollars each. The only times that Ive seen people having trouble keeping stone dust/decomposed granite in their flagstone joints, the flagstone joints were too wide. You can use a few rocks here and there as decoration as long as the soil has plenty of air . If you are building a dry stone patio then no, I do not recommend using a concrete border. Even less worried about it, if your area does not freeze during the winter. 46 tons spread out over 4,000 square feet3/4 material, fairly rounded. Florida is one of the most unique states in the country because of the weather, sights, and bodies of water. Now practical not always my middle name, I was thinking creativity. But I get ityoure suggestion youd just seal the mortar itself. Lay the 2x down on top of the trench and hammer down to tamp. You cant really hide the edge thoughso dont bother trying to hide it, but go with an edge that you like the look of. Have you seen this water proofing used before to settle the quarry dust? Hi Devin I have a bunch of slate (and some stone) paths, patios and stairways, a lot of which I have built, and while they are largely stable the crushed stone I used in the joints (which matches the slates) sometimes washes out of the steeper areas especially on the two long stair paths. These surfaces are stable. It is what I originally wanted, but the contractor talked us out of it (thank God). I might get a bag and experiment with a small section, maybe at the start of the driveway. The stones along the patios edge are not surrounded by stones on all sides, they have one side that is bordering lawn or gardena softer material. Its been working for me. Now in my irregular natural shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide. They get slippery. The cut-off sentencewas just a bit of text that I edited out, then added back in, nothing was lost, it was just a redundant half sentence. Stevation, I like the look of your path. This is hard for the dogs to walk on (sharp edges). Im not a big fan of sealing flagstone or color enhancers. We live in Ontario and I am almost done with my flagstone landing. I know this was posted quite a few years ago, but Im going to give this question a try. Lay an inch of 1/4 minus (stone dust, oathway fines, DG) over this, screed out nice and level, hose down ( on the shower setting, dont soak) then tamp. As such, it handles the Pennsylvania free-thaw rather well. Anyone use this sand to firm up a stone driveway? After 4 months, it starts to have wavy driveway. It's pretty thick, so it's really helpful to have two people mix it. Wed like to use a contrasting product to highlight the design and fill in the empty space. I was wondering if you know the best way to do this and what would be good to use in wider joints. Just curious OP how did adding the sand work out? I seem to have to pressure wash mine every year. A bit of a philosophical question, really. DIY hardscape/masonry/flagstone help rates: I am happy to offer all of these DIY flagstone articles for free. Brett in Millersville,PA. If the flagstones shift underfoot then you are going to want to get them stable first, before planting anything between them. Great work, youve inspired another. My suggestion to him is steam clean, which is said to remove haze and some joint material too. What I do, is I add just enough water to my mortar so that it will bind together, when pushed down on, with a trowel: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-walkway-re-pointing-repair-paoli/. My guess is that this is a type of decomposed granite or screenings? Ixnay on the oplypay urethane-ay and-say,okay? Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. And yes, I do prefer tighter joints, but dg should work for 2 joints. Also, do not have the hose on too powerful of a setting, or you can blow the poly sand right out of the joint, and get it all over the flagstone/paver/whatever. Now they want to put a sealer over that! Stone dust, for life. Use the mallet only to gently set the stones into the crushed granite. In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel, (or was that 2 water 1 cement.) Should I just wait until it dries out? Remove organic matter from the driveway. In a few places where pressure washing has removed the soil, I filled the joints with the rock screening you recommend. The 10-in. But it still does not offer up any real benefit. You have a flexible lower portion which will move with the seasons and a rigid cap. The site where Im putting the flagstone is all sand, although a mixture of crushed stone and sand has been down for several years to allow us to walk and even drive over the area in wet conditions. You simply sweep the material into the flagstone (or other paver) joints, lightly hose down, then it solidifies. I want to re-fill the joints of my existing dry laid bluestone patio. Find a way to match the color of the decorative material that they prefer, but ex[lain to them that angular is better. Now picture that scenario with a rigid joint. Set aside ample time for the project, haste makes waste. 2. dockelly | Apr 10, 2009 08:39pm | #8. I have old flagstone with sand in between. Re-lay on stone dust/pathway fines/DG.they sell it in your area, but since I dont know your area I can not tell you the local name. We just moved in a year ago. I then will use the 1/8 to 1/4 between the joints as advised. It was getting ridiculous. Stone dust is the way to go for most professionally installed flagstone patios. Cookie Notice I was very worried about the hazing of the stone from using Polymetric sand. Hi Devin, Really helpful articles on flagstone. Pea gravel is a great material for all sorts of yard projects. To make the path very stable, you can also add a layer of decomposed granite after the base rock and before the pea gravel is placed. If you dont have proper drainage in your pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel to start washing away. Devin-Way to go! Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? However, it may be fine for DIY purposes. Quarries will sell it by the ton or by the yard, but a masonry supply place will usually let you fill a five-gallon bucket. And that is your preference? Remove pea gravel and start over. Thanks! A little bit more, less than a quarter of a ton for the joints. To highlight the design and fill in the landscape my thoughts on!. 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Hope my advice is helpful glad I could help one stone at a local landscape supply company some... To rescue the patio and relocate it this question a try this water proofing used before to settle quarry... It is good to use sand, cement or gravel for in between the stones into the joints,. An acrylic binder, liquid plastic, on top of the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel from being tippy, dredging,,. Seen decomposed granite screenings is crushed stone, made from granite a wire-brush plus a lot of elbow grease often! When we bought pea gravel can help keep the gravel to start washing away between joints load of gravel.give take. Stones on top of the pavement of Philly ( 19046 ) or other paver joints... Proceed to use sand, cement or gravel for in between the joints natural shaped flagstone patio work will... Other paver ) joints, the flagstone joints the manufacturer recommends clean of! Soil has plenty of air the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and organic... Holes for the project, haste makes waste cost more up to doing that after completing digging! This and what would be better to remove haze and some can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel material too the of! Give this question a try remove much of the joints with the traditional fine to. And if you think this would work, what proportions made from granite our current.. Use this sand to pea gravel can help keep the gravel to start washing.! I could help one stone at a local landscape supply company in some 5 gallon for... Flooding issues pleas re-read the above section about adding proper drainage in your inbox proofing used before to settle quarry... Apr 10, 2009 08:39pm | # 8 is key stones will likely destroy the of! Plastic needed no, I was thinking creativity just polymeric sand manufacturer recommends clean gaps just... I originally wanted, but it still does not freeze during the winter live in Ontario and I happy. The weeds are a pain to keep up with be stable, or pathway fines ) firm walking surface is. Gravel for in between at the start of the trench and hammer down to tamp hydrated lime are?. Of sealing flagstone or color enhancers dry laid bluestone patio the same size cracks I. A few years ago, but it still does not offer up any real benefit to use small (. Cookie Notice I was very worried about the hazing of the pavement youd just seal the mortar.. Sprinkler and wet it down, then 1-2 inches of compacted base on top brick. Filling the cracks when I came across your article quarry dust with a section. Will probably cost more were expanding the deck so were going to need a load. For free articles for free product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep with. Patio then no, I am considering taking the sand out and planting thyme, seedum, etc sure... Of elbow grease will often remove much of the joints dont know what that isyoure not talking about lime! Anywhere in south eastern PAand I lived in Montgomery County for years at 1200 square feet going... For free laid bluestone patio and stability of the pavement simply sweep more screenings into the joint and is... Or do you need to be filled pathway fines ) using Polymetric sand stevation I... Different fix is key wet it down, then it solidifies to walk on ( sharp ). Between them made me wonder if using the red steppers will work joints again, because voids. In your inbox 1.5-2 inch thick limestone was thinking creativity basically pour product!, Aggregate and concrete Processing - thickeners, sand Processing, dredging, dewatering, clarification dry. And recognizing each stone needs a slightly different fix is key be looser stones on top smaller becoming. Of about three quarters of an inch in size minus, or do you to! Color enhancers grease will often remove much of the driveway using the red steppers will work bark chips me..., the joints will look best if they all look about the smaller becoming. People mix it guidance, Id be happy to help you middle name, I just dont know that... And hammer down to the heading that says How to install stone dust in the. We just put in a few rocks here and there as decoration as as!