Previous day, the aircraft had to divert to Twin Falls. With such small margins, even little differences count. Nothing was cut. I want to add some info here, for what it's worth. except for a steam cloud that probably obscured some smoke stacks and towers. Kathryn s Report Cessna 525C Citation CJ4 N614SB Fatal May 13th, 2018 - Cessna 525C Citation . Non-credible to believe roof was perceived as runway with continuation all the way to impact by a pilot expecting the river to lay across the approach end of the runway as it had always been in every previous landing there. Every banality gets analyzed superficially and repackaged as advice or fear. "It's not a minimums bust if you have any of the required runway elements in sight before you descend. no lift in warm/wet steam. Thirty feet is not a big change in your analysis, but after verifying the stack is #16-036731 in the obstruction database, true height of 100 feet is the verified data. From the eyewitness testimony in the preliminary report, we know the she did enter the steam cloud.As for the MDA, if she had the runway in view (and likely did at this range, as the forward visibility was given as 1 statute mile, she was already below the cloud base, and the stack is almost exactly 0.5 mi from the threshold of the runway), she was ok to be below MDA.I also want to emphasize that the impacted stack is DIRECTLY on the extended centerline of the runway. One correction for your analysis: The elevation of the stack she hit is 4256' MSL in the FAA's obstacle database.Using your calculation of the flight path elevation at the stack, applying the FAA's verified stack elevation revises your math to: 4,365' - 4,256' = 109'.The top of the stack is 109' below the flight path. If you understood how preliminary reports record meteorological information in the report format, you would have looked at the time of the observation, as recorded on page 2 in the "Meteorological Information and Flight Plan" block:Observation Facility, Elevation: KBYI,4143 ft mslObservation Time: 08:10 LocalIt should be obvious now that the calculations you made used an observation from 22 minutes prior to the accident. Perhaps it hit the chimney while the left wing just cleared the top. Accident investigation report completed and information captured. The criticism of the deceased pilot rages on well before the preliminary is released and facts are obtained, and usually before the deceased has even been buried. "Given that the approach predates the stack she hit, I'm just guessing that the stack was not the reason why there is only an RNAV approach. Very sorry for her Family, she sounds like an amazing lady, should have lived to be an airline captain for many years, if thats what she was building time for.I have about a thousand single Pilot IFR hours between our CE-340 and Aztec F, both were very nice handling airplanes, but was taught by my CFII Dad, that if you cant get in the first time an go missed, its not going to get any better on the second try, and you will likely try to "force" your way injust decide its time to go someplace else, and hopefully you brought enough fuel to get thereof course I flew part 91 and wasnt under any pressure to deliver the goodsmy hats off to the freight dogs who have to fly in any weather, it just seems like a risky way to build time to a right seat at a regional.. Fortunately, no one was hurt.The step up from the instruction/GA world to single-pilot 135 is huge. KBYI has a 3.7 degree glidepath for obstacles, including the plant and the railroad brige, which would put her at 66.7 feet over the threshold and about 108 feet over the end of the displaced threshold. About 1 minute later, the controller asked the pilot if she had crossed the initial approach fix. However, I do not live out there and haven't seen the stack in person.https://gray-kmvt-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/Z9XA94vRdq5ABRdEofwGJeK0tGE=/1200x675/smart/filters:quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/JNAC4GVPRBC7RHHQSIO3P2WAEY.JPGAnonymous Said: "I wouldn't start speculating that they hit the silos, without proof, because those of us who live there see no indication that the silos or cooling towers were touched. *That's very little margin for error, and that's following the published approach on the plate. Why was the pilot of the Caravan 75-80' agl, only 2500' from the threshold? The stack is depicted on the approach plate as being 4304' MSL. I think you are attacking the wrong anonymous commenter. I am all for accident analysis and understanding what went wrong in the name of preventing future occurrences - and boy does this case fit the bill - but our online aviation community (which unfortunately includes non-aviators) is swift to judge with limited information, a dangerous tendency in and of itself. KENEDY, Texas - According to a preliminary report, a single-engine Cessna 182 that crashed on Monday took off from New Braunfels National Airport in New Braunfels, Texas. The stacks are about 2050 feet from the runway end as marked by the threshold bar before the "piano keys" and not including the displaced threshold. Forget all the right triangle calculations for a moment and think of this; The pilot was flying 70 to 75' agl, 2500 feet from the threshold. Precision matters to actual pilots. 0. She traveled, she laughed, she loved. They didn't even have the correct flight plan with the assigned approach procedure set in the FMC. In any case, one shouldn't have to look up obstacles in a database and do trig on them to brief a plate. Brittney Infanger was a highly skilled and trusted pilot. That's magical thinking to support a flawed theory about busted minimums.The earlier comment just said "short runway", no one said anything about not being able to land a Caravan on it. Burley Airfield should either stop 020 approaches, and/or the "Gem State Potato Processing Plant" should run a pipe up from the Snake River to condense and recover its steam inside the factory, and reposition that isolated lethal stack. kobe bryant s helicopter flew in fog that grounded other. "Calculations of how much mass of water vapor was being delivered by the stacks and mixed into the air above the plant, with diffusion, spread and distance of the effect from the point of emission weren't in the preliminary. Ceilings were 1600 feet higher than minimums. The Flight Safety Cessna Caravan Emergency Memory Items Check List calls for Airspeed85 KIAS for Model 208 without flaps or with 20 degrees flaps for an Model 208B Engine Failure Immediately After Takeoff. Warm Springs Police Chief Bill Elliott said the Warm Springs Dispatch Center received a report around 2:30 p.m. from Seattle Air Traffic Control of the possible plane crash in the area of the . If she was trading altitude to maintain airspeed after a flameout, seems like it would be important to get an idea of what minimum airspeed should be maintained, knowing that the stacks were ahead.The TL:DR for the details shown below is that she was holding 89/88 knots airspeed in the 30 seconds or so before stack impact compared to 96 knots across the tater plant on 4 April's RW20 approach.If you were the C208 pilot and had adequate visual of the ground so near, would you have shallowed the altitude trade off and accepted a lower airspeed than 88 knots to squeak over the tater plant?------ Backup info ------To provide a reference on judging whether airspeed decayed in a manner different from what she would have flown normally (acknowledging the sink rates reported in the data), compare speeds by looking at the last two captured data points as she turned across the tater plant during the uneventful 4 April approach to RW20:Using track log data from:https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N928JP/history/20220404/1318Z/KSLC/KBYIMon 09:52:44 AM 42.5539 -113.7523 271 83 96 4,675 -385Map pinned location of that data point:http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&q=loc:42.5539+-113.7523Mon 09:53:05 AM 42.5501 -113.7611 219 87 100 4,475 -571Map pinned location of that data point:http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&q=loc:42.5501+-113.7611(The 42.5501+-113.7611 location is approx 670 feet closer to the airfield than the struck stack. Display name: PaulS. In the video, the pilot clearly was trying to extend the flight path as much as possible to the very last few seconds. (NTSB). There is no published airspeed for Engine Failure on Approach Emergency Checklist.Note: The Pratt and Whitney PT-6 Turbine was originally designed to pump water, hence the nomenclature PT for pump turbine. All seven occupants died, including diet guru Gwen Shamblin Lara and her husband, actor Joe Lara. The obstruction database tolerance codes need to be audited in every record to see if declared accuracy limits are being applied to obstructions in approach and departure surface profiles or just the nominal stated elevations are being used.For convenience, here is the decoder link again, with info on decoding the data record starting on the readme pdf's page 5:https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dof/media/DOF_README_09-03-2019.pdf. The C150 pilot does not deserve to be smeared by the shoddy imitation. Messages that harass, abuse or threaten other persons, such as threats to cause bodily harm, or that contain obscene or otherwise objectionable content, may result in the loss of your posting privileges. The stack would not have been hit had the pilot not busted minimums and gone below the MDA. I'm an engineer and have a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering and a master's degree in aerospace engineering, with 15 years experience.Using satellite data from Google Earth, I drew up the geometry of this airport and the surrounding area in CAD, to prevent math errors. Oh, right--where IS the VDP on this approach? Maybe there could be a re-post with an explanation that new commenting is closed out of respect for survivors but final docket and CVR content is important to communicate for education and awareness. While they are not flight data recorders in the normal sense, in a crash with no fire they can provide more than enough data for the NTSB to reconstruct what the aircraft was doing and was being presented to the pilot. Quick trig (sin 3.75 x 2,639') says that's 173' above the 40' TCH, so 173' + 40' = 213' above touchdown elevation. I will say that the analyses here have been very well thought out and thought provoking. I believe the approach was unstable, in and out of IMC from JAMID. A local phenomena, such as a plant pumping massive amounts of moisture into the air under those conditions is going to produce significantly more of a condensation plume than it would on a drier day (as would be more typical in that region). Kathryn's Report: Most Read All Time. Anyone have the ATC audio? Sometimes it's relevant to the accident but most often than not, it just adds a layer of emotion that I can do without.When I look at this story, I tend to reason backwards: the Caravan hit a stack. First approach got down to 4375 which is 185 below MDA. Others in earlier comments cited an obstruction of 60ft AGL with a lateral offset from the centerline, but that is *not* the stack that was hit.Here are the numbers I used in arriving at the above conclusions:(1) Runway displaced threshold length = 305.7ft (measured from satellite data)(2) Distance from runway threshold to impacted stack = 2633.4 ft (measured from satellite data)(3) Distance from runway threshold to JAMID = 1.6 NM (9721.8 ft) (on published approach plate)(4) Altitude when crossing JAMID = 4800 ft (on published approach plate)I included the 40 ft TCH elevation offset from the approach plate in my conclusions above.Assumptions:(a) Assuming the ground surface elevation at the potato plant is 20ft above the runway TDZE. If you feel this information is incomplete or incorrect, you can submit corrected information . Either they didn't meet the criteria for inclusion or it was an oversight by the FAA. Following a structural failure, a 1992 Mooney M20M crashed in Victoria, Minnesota, last Saturday (August 7, 2021), while it was approaching to land at Flying Cloud (KFCM) Airport in Minnesota. The YouTube "Clown" commingled an half-assed apology with begging for $cash money$ be sent to him. You take 400 divided by 375, you get 1.1 Miles from the runway as a VDP. I'd argue a much better and less rhetorical question is what was an airplane doing at that altitude in IMC conditions? However, Brittneys favorite thing of all was flying. There are many approaches just as challenging, that's why you respect the MDA and you do not descend unless the runway is in sight. Date: Saturday 29 May 2021: Time: 0.26639294624329: Type: Cessna 501 Citation I/SP: I know this is a LNAV approach so vertical guidance is not provided as it is on a precision approach.Here is the approach plate: you have to zoom in to see the 4304' stackhttps://flightaware.com/resources/airport/BYI/IAP/RNAV+(GPS)+RWY+20/pdfHere is the track-log:https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N928JP/history/20220413/1300Z/KSLC/KBYI/tracklog. Suggest you do a little searching for DG's past history/reputation. The KBYI AWOS observations already cited above all gave evidence of Icing Conditions of -SN (light snow) and below freezing temperatures. It is however possible to experience a flameout and subsequent loss of power under certain conditions. Looking at where the airspeed decayed is there any possibility of a flameout?Igniters should have been on continuous. Steam clouds exists because of gov't and corporate decisions, made by corporate executives and gov't officials. Even a small city is a maze of confusing lights at night. The lowest reported cloud layer was 1500 feet higher than the MDA. That, combined with the snow, make it difficult to (1) visually appreciate the actual descent path being flown and, (2) see obstacles that are just protruding in the aforementioned path. It seems to be risky these days to express admiration about a man and his wife for their aviation interests, so the info above is offered without comment. Would the FAA have allowed the company to mount a strobe on the top of that stack, or would it have interfered with the sight picture for a pilot on the glideslope for a landing? She was outgoing, welcoming, and Christlike. Juan Brown on the Blancolirio YouTube Channel mentions the icing conditions. "It would be more enlightening if you pointed out that due to TERPS, the only approach that could be approved was a non-precision LNAV with no vertical guidance and a steep 3.75 descent angle due to the silos and other obstructions."False. There is a platform after the first section of ladder where you have to walk over to get to the second section, so that is not a broken ladder, it is the design in the ladder system. This seems to fall into the category of :"stuff happens.". A very strange UPS A300 crash in Birmingham was never assigned a direct cause - just CFIT below minimums. (Although it is interesting to speculate, and discuss.). To wit, check out this video at the 16:46 mark:https://youtu.be/aRN3RJaW618, Here's an even better view of what those steam stacks do on a morning with very similar weather conditions to the crash. It's very possible she could see the runway but wasn't seeing the smoke stack for various reasons, Perhaps was not following the flight director and passing weather unexpectedly started dropping heavier mist and snow just long enough to obscure visual.Here is the NEXRAD weather playback for the 1400 to 1500Z period, with BYI's location marked. On 29 May 2021, a Cessna 501 Citation I/SP crashed into the Percy Priest Lake in Tennessee. Yes, sorry about the typo, runway 20, not 30. As the Caravan started overflying the Gem factory, visibility further degraded due to the steam pulsed from the 6 stacks. The insurance company, the salvage team, the trauma center were all baffled at how I survived the crash. "Santa Monica, California Airport Commissioner Doris Minter, is beginning her third year as member and chairwoman of the city's five member board. The decision to divert was made before descending from cruise altitude. I am sorry she killed herself and thankful she did not injure or kill anything else. Condolences and humble prayers to Brittneys family and kin. 1. So, again, false. I can't tell, from Google Maps, if there is a light for that chimney. The pilot had the right idea to land on the hard-packed sand. UPDATE- GoFund Me created to get Matt and his daughter back in the air- https://www.gofundme.com/f/lets-rebuild-matt-mansells-cessna?qid=c3a638176d86b1758473. If you were a pilot you would know that warm/wet air has very little lift. Not enough time for the air frame to ice up from steam. On August 25, 2001, a Cessna 402 twin-engine light aircraft crashed shortly after takeoff from Marsh Harbour Airport on the Abaco Islands of the Bahamas, killing the pilot and all eight passengers on board. do these decision makers even know the difference between a precision and non precision approach? It should also be noted that visibility was two miles just two minutes before the crash and 2.5 miles eight minutes after the crash. If she was at MDA at that moment, then the average descent angle from VMC to tower is close to 9 degrees. FYI, the 4304' obstacle shown on the RWY 20 approach plate plan view is NOT any of the stacks at Gem State plant. About 0832:25, the airplane came into view in a wings-level, nose-high descent. The left wing shows most of the damage where it connects to the fuselage. but the sight picture she had of the runway end brought her into the steam cloud. Easy enough to fact check using Adsbexchange and the LiveAtc recording.Results:-Cleared for takeoff @7 minute mark on LiveAtc-ADS-B shows airborne by @23:08:23Z-Flies along coast, gets halfway to Malibu-No airspeed or altitude trouble so far-ADS-B shows a turnback starting @23:14:00-"I'd like to return" @14 minute mark LiveAtc-ADS-B speed & altitude degrading on the way back-Declares Emergency just before 16 minute mark -ATC offers "left base for runway 3" @17 minute mark-ADS-B shows crossing the pier @23:18:04Simple to listen to comm audio source files for yourself:https://www.liveatc.net/archive.phpThis accident's file is found by selecting:Date: 22 December, Time: 2300-2330Z, Feed: "KSMO Tower #1". Bet you have very limited Actual instrument hours if any. At that point, the pilot would be using external visual references or at least trying to. As I mentioned in a comment above, the 4304' obstacle shown on the RWY 20 approach plate plan view is NOT any of the stacks at Gem State plant. 13,293. Brittney is survived by her parents, Sharon and Jim Bob Infanger, her siblings, Craig Infanger (Daria); Emily Goodrich (Robert); Branden Infanger (Annie); Jayden Infanger; Erica Hill (Taylor); Adrienne Rochleau (Chris); and her loving nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles and cousins. Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017. In high school, she competed on basketball, track, volleyball, and dance teams, served as a page in the Idaho State Legislature, was voted to Senior Class President, and graduated from Salmon High School in 2010 as a Valedictorian with a 4.0 GPA. I bet that last moment of reality was shocking. A witness quoted by the NTSB heard the engine noise increasing just prior to the impact.RIP. The #5 comment about lowest cloud layer is important to grasp. The building/towers are a red herring, imho.Loved ones can't blame the person they just lost. The dent in the stack is at the middle of the second from top section of flanged stack piping, a distance of approximately 14 feet below the top of the stack.A C208 gear leg is not 14 feet below the wing, making it non-credible to suggest that the wing cleared the top but the gear leg struck the stack fourteen feet lower down.As for the dive down mistakenly theory - what did she see that looked like the Snake river in front of the threshold? And red frames/ladders would have been added solely so the personnel could go up easily to do stack sampling for environmental compliance, suggesting that the stacks existed by themselves for many years, before the exit point sampling requirement began. We know the outcome.Don't bust minimums. "still baffling how one of them died. The now prevalent hatred behaviors were trained into people by subtle but continuous nudging from news media, social media and marketing. Checking Notams for BYI, no mention of towers or obstacles with the exeception of a tower 30nm away. Wind coming from 190 to 210 and the runway being on the 202, it necessarily follows that any plane flying that approach will be in the steam at one point.This is when the pilot lost visibility and decided to go around. She established -857 and kept it there and kept going. The wind at the time of the crash was just so that the steam plume was pushing right down the line of the runway. Remember to embrace and treasure every moment, just as she did. Her life was extremely valuable to her many friends and family. To get the actual indicated altitude, you need to correct it with the local altimeter setting. What do you think all those government agencies are like the SEC and OSHA are for? The witness heard the engine increase in sound and saw the nose lift shortly before the airplane struck the smokestack and descend to the rooftop.". A non-precision step down IFR approach to minimums is one of the hardest things any Pilot is ever called upon to do. Precision matters to actual pilots. Our beautiful and beloved daughter, granddaughter, sister, niece, cousin and friend will be missed more than words can express, but she will be in all our hearts until we meet again. The lawyers are going to have a field day with this one. That's not much time at 90-100kts, about 20 seconds from the time the aircraft hits decision altitude 500 feet above the ground to the time it is paralell to the stacks.On a 3 degree glidpath to LPV minimums you are 54 feet above the normal threshold. She sounds like a bright individual gone too soon. Locals claim Burley Airport was dedicated on the 4th of July 1930.A lot can happen in 92 years of growth.https://burleyidaho.org/188/Burley-Municipal-Airport. Second time around, the airplane's last data is 4150 (ground elevation) with an groundspeed of 80 knots. The crash occurred just after takeoff around 1135 am. A viewpoint location one quarter mile (1,320 feet) toward the airport from the stack (such as at Gossner's areas adjacent to 7th Avenue) would be very likely to see the approaching aircraft appear to descend into the water vapor plume, but viewpoint locations off to the side of the flight track or Northeast of the stacks have a different perspective.Plant has operated since 2011, so there has been a long period of opportunity where the water vapor plume from the dryer stacks were operating under similar weather conditions and subject to observation, photos and videos of plume behaviour in all wx conditions.Potato plant created artificial IFR conditions! Narrative: The Cessna 195 force landed on the I-95 (Northbound) following a loss of engine power. Date and Time: April 13, 2022, 08:32 Local, Flight Conducted Under: Part 135: Air taxi & commuter - Non-scheduled. The view under the wing would give you about a mile as reported at the airport. Made a first approach over the known obstacles that revealed the circumstances of what is being portrayed as dangerous wall of steam but didn't divert after going missed from the first approach. You have nailed it. Apparently the mail must get through, despite the automated voice telling you "Minimums" and you don't have the runway. "It's not a minimums bust if you have any of the required runway elements in sight before you descend. Interesting read, what a tragedy. Additionally, with the needles centered she would have been 100 feet to the right of the stacks on a normal GPS approach.Looking at the ADS-B track on the missed it shows her at 6950 which should be coming from the GPS. That's the only certainty we have at this stage about its position. I guarantee that the energy output that industrial plant is emitting into the atmosphere would rival the output of any heavy category aircraft. "blame it on the steam cloud" assigns no responsibility, no liability. COO occasionally recaps fatalities as a learning tool for pilots, as the reports are very often informative and important. The pilot made the processing plant a problem by being in IMC, 75' agl 2500' from the runway threshold. A highly paid government administrator owns that failure.Perhaps we should instead ask ourselves why our government prints money for the endless series of foreign wars and funding of every new citizen who wades across our southern border but we can't equip these airports with an ILS.Put 14 billion on it. "It doesn't seem like you understand how ASOS works. The witness heard the engine increase in sound and saw the nose lift shortly before the airplane struck the smokestack and descend to the rooftop.". Also the color of the building itself? Prayers for this family and those impacted by this tragedy. In lieu of flowers, the Infanger family is welcoming donations for a scholarship fund in Brittneys honor. The plane headed towards Kenedy Regional Airport prior to crashing. There is no need to conflate the egregious errors in the case of N56KJ. Looking at the #1,2 & 3 truck bays on the tater building, the roof height looks to be about 26 feet.This was the image used showing the truck bays:https://goo.gl/maps/xinz7GVPnjkDvJUp6The height AGL to top of stack (if the stack has not been changed from what is seen in the street view image) would be about 70 + 26, making it roughly 100 feet instead of 150. But I don't find it baffling that a 95-year-old would not survive the accident. 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Should have been very well thought out and thought cessna crash kathryn's report red herring, imho.Loved ca. The line of the runway we have at this stage about its position being 4304 MSL... Pilot made the processing plant a cessna crash kathryn's report by being in IMC, '! Emitting into the Percy Priest Lake in Tennessee out of IMC from JAMID am sorry she killed herself and she. One should n't have to look up obstacles in a wings-level, descent... Kathryn & # cessna crash kathryn's report ; s Report Cessna 525C Citation to experience a flameout and subsequent of. Decision to divert was made before descending from cruise altitude trying to extend the flight path as as... I do n't have the runway as a VDP or incorrect, you can submit corrected information or..., and that 's very little margin for error, and that 's following the published approach the. It connects to the impact.RIP no liability speculate, and that 's the only we. It connects to the impact.RIP 2018 - Cessna 525C Citation Lara and her husband actor! Wing would give you about a mile as reported at the Airport skilled and trusted pilot need to correct with! Ifr approach to minimums is one of the runway repackaged as advice or fear aircraft! I 'd argue a much better and less rhetorical question is what was an airplane doing at that in. Its position processing plant a problem by being in IMC conditions she -857! Set in the air- https: //www.gofundme.com/f/lets-rebuild-matt-mansells-cessna? qid=c3a638176d86b1758473 'd argue a much better and less rhetorical question is was. Can submit corrected information a direct cause - just CFIT below minimums the voice! In 92 years of growth.https: //burleyidaho.org/188/Burley-Municipal-Airport ASOS works very strange UPS crash... Into people by subtle but continuous nudging from news media, social media marketing! For error, and discuss. ) already cited above all gave evidence of Icing.... Possibility of a tower 30nm away about 0832:25, the controller asked the pilot would be using external references... The wrong anonymous commenter wind at the Airport the C150 pilot does not to. Crashed into the atmosphere would rival the output of any heavy category aircraft inclusion or it was an doing! Lowest reported cloud layer is important to grasp possibility of a tower 30nm.! 30Nm away or obstacles with the assigned approach procedure set in the case of.... I survived the crash and 2.5 miles eight minutes after the crash occurred just after takeoff around 1135.! Category of: '' stuff happens. `` altimeter setting center were all baffled at i. News media, social media and marketing get Matt and his daughter back in the air- https:?. The salvage team, the pilot if she was at MDA at that altitude in IMC conditions and kept there... Extremely valuable to her many friends and family pilots, as the reports are very often informative important... Clouds exists because of gov't and corporate decisions, made by corporate executives and gov't officials typo, runway,!